OLIVER ANCESTORS of Eliza OLIVER
and Sir Thomas JACKSON & Myself

Rough Draft - February 1, 2007
Updated September 26, 2007 with warnings - this page needs a major rewrite

I have posted this page- as a rough draft - in the hopes that others may know of other bits of the puzzle and can set me right. I will update the page from time to time - so watch for the update notice in red font. I'm looking forward to learning more. Sharon Oddie Brown, February 1, 2007

Useful LINKS on my site: OLIVER Family Early Detective Work OLIVERs listed by townland OLIVERs of Tullymore & Umgola OLIVER names in assorted data tables

The OLIVER family crest: Amy LLOYD - 1874-1962 - a daughter of Sir Thomas JACKSON and grand-daughter of Eliza OLIVER - says that the Oliver crest that relates to our family included the symbol of three fishes, one below the other. This rules out a lot of other OLIVERS - especially the ones from the south - not an unimportant clue to where not to look for our roots . Unfortunately, the closest crest design that I can find so far is a crest of the Olivers of Limerick which has only one fish. I suspect that this is not it. Regretably, the Church of Ireland Cathedral window in the City of Armagh that displayed our crest was destroyed in a bomb blast in 1957. There may be a photo of it somewhere, but I have yet to find this. [NOTE Updates soon on this. January 13, 2008]

The Location of our OLIVERS: Blin BROWN , my great-aunt, left us notes that say: The Olivers came from France originally & settled around Armagh. At one time, they owned lots of landed property, Killylea & Lisnadill districts. They had Dublin connections too.These land connections can be traced and verified through the various DEEDS that I have posted and the full story of their landholdings will be written when I can get to it. There are still more deeds that I need to view and digest. Blin BROWN also mentioned that the Dublin branch of our family had the cathedral in their crest. I have few ideas who the Dublin OLIVERs were (just a few marriage and birth records) and how they will turn out to fit in.

Silver OLIVER - the mystery of how he connects : Other notes of Blin's from Gilford Castle claim that: Silver Oliver was Dean of Armagh & his son, Silver Oliver married Maria Oliver. This son of the Silver OLIVER that she is referring to was a Doctor at Loughgall, Co. Armagh. A person so named entered military service, serving mainly in India. [SOURCE: From http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/2240.html ] He was described as an English military surgeon, born in 1836 and ended his career as Surgeon General. He was also the author of: Physical diagnosis of thoracic aneurysm. [SOURCE: Letter. Lancet, London, 1878, II: 406.] He died 1908, at Farnborough. NOTE: I am unsure if this is the same person that Blin identified.

Then there is also a William Silver OLIVER who is recognized in a Canadian patent: SEE: Patent 45782 . In 1870 he had served as a regimental surgeon with the 1st Battalion, 60th Rifles, in the Red River campaign; there he had seen first-hand the combat requirements of soldiers. His goal was to furnish each man with enough ammunition, clothing and rations to make him independent of his base for a 24-hour period. Given the timelines, I suspect that if this OLIVER was related to the previous William Silver OLIVER, then he was likely tohave been a son. This one married in Toronto: 16 April, 1872, William Silver OLIVER, Staff Surgeon to H. M. Forces, bachelor, and Elizabeth Alice GALT, spinster, Toronto. [SOURCE: St. James Church, Toronto, Canada ] Interesting in this connection is that there was also a John OLIVER b.1834 who was a Colonel of the Canadian Royal Artillery and also a professor who married a local woman in Kingston, Ontario. I believe he was also a surgeon. SEE: Report 102 . NOTE: I have nothing more on any of these OLIVERs at this time.

DOBBIN-OLIVER connections: According to Blin, the OLIVER families are also connected to the DOBBIN family of Armagh, although I don't know exactly how as yet. I do have a record of a marriage between a Mary OLIVER and a James DOBBIN and although I don't have them clicked into place so far, I have made a start. From two email correspondants, Michael DOBBIN and Lori CHECHI, I have learned that Mary OLIVER, (I believe her father was a William OLIVER) married a James DOBBIN (1684-1722) of Tirnascobe and Rathdrumgran on Dec 6, 1711.  They had a son who died in infancy, three daughters and two other sons, William (Baptised Sept 12, 1714) and Rev. James, 1st Presbyterian  Minister at Newtownards, Co. Down (Bapt. Feb 26, 1714). [SOURCE: email Feb 8, 2006]. Also, they lived in Tirniscobe, on the Charlemount Estate in Armagh. [SOURCE email: Jan 25, 2005] Mary OLIVER had a brother, William OLIVER, who may also have been from Tirnascobe, Co. Armagh. Michael DOBBIN has reason to believe he was somehow a prominent member of society....possibly an author. [SOURCE email: Jan 24, 2005.] This may be a fit with the William OLIVER who wrote a dissertation in 1764 which is in the special collection at the Armagh Public Library. I need to check that out. Descendants of this DOBBIN line currently live in Australia. These OLIVERs may also be a fit with the William and Mary OLIVER who were mentioned in Thomas Ashe's memoir as tenants at Mullintur in 1703. Also note:

LAND RECORDS OF CHARLEMOUNT ESTATE Oliver Dobbin, 1 Nov 1789, 3 lives Leonard Dobbin, 1 Nov 1750, 3 lives

One other source to tuck in the back of our heads are the Parish records of St. Marks, and St. Patrick's Cathedral in the City of Armagh. In these records, there are three townlands of interest in connection with the DOBBIN name . There are two DOBBIN births (1785 & 1844) with parents resident at Ballinahone (a townland where we have records indicating the presence of OLIVERs from 1770-1849) and in 1820 a William & Eliza DOBBIN had a daughter, Mary Jane born at Ternascobe. In the burials, there are ten DOBBINs whose residences were in townlands close to Killynure, including two who were actually given as resident at Killynure (a child Leonard DOBBIN, died at Killynure in1756 and a child Margaret died at age 6 in 1757). Since Killynure was leased by OLIVERs from at least 1806 onwards (and owned until 1954), this proximity might have also encouraged more intermarriages that we have yet to learn about.

NOTE: I am thinking out loud here - in the hopes that someone else might notice new bits that might fit or old bits that need to be reconsidered. In short - Help!

The County Monaghan connections: There has to be a reason that Eliza OLIVER was married in Ballybay, although she was born in Armagh and that her sister Mary Jane OLIVER who lived in Co. Louth in her later years returned to die there. We know that their father Benjamin OLIVER and his brothers and father and grandfather had business dealings in Co. Monaghan. The whole story of their involvement with the mills at Laragh still needs to be written. (That part will have to wait until after my next research trip to Ireland this spring.) There are also too many other OLIVERs there to be ignored. One in particular tweaks my curiousity: James OLIVER AKA Thomas OLIVER (Abt 1741- Dec 8, 1826). Thanks to a range of sources, including Full Circle and At the Ford of the Birches as well as church registry transcripts from Wendy JACK, I know a good deal more about him and his wife, Margaret McCLELLAND (Abt 1750-June 24, 1827) as well as their four children: Jane, Mary, Isaiah and Sarah. These lines have also led me to descendants who likely were in Hong Kong the same time as Sir Thomas JACKSON - but more of that later. Also, thanks to an email from Roisin Lafferty on Feb 9, 2006, I have the following:

(O.S. 18, 19) First Ballybay Presbyterian Church and graveyard, Derryvally This church lies alongside the Ballybay to Swan's Cross Road and the graveyard contains 127 headstones. Although the church was built in 1786, the oldest gravestone is dated in 1826. The church has undergone many renovations and is still in use. The earliest headstone encountered reads: In memory of James Oliver of Aughnamullen died 28 Dec. 1826 aged 85 years and his wife Margaret, died 24 June 1827 aged 77 years, and Isaiah Oliver, their son, late of Derryroosk died 24th July 1833 aged 46 years, and his wife Isabella, died 10th August 1838 aged 48 years. Records Available First Ballybay Baptisms 1834 - 1982; Marriages 1834 - 1844 and 1849 - 1956. PRONI - MIC/1P/171. Baptisms 1799 - 1837 in Presbyterian Historical Society.

It is hard to believe that there isn't a connection between this James (or Thomas) OLIVER and the OLIVER line that follows, although at this stage I can not be certain what it might be. I suspect that deeds may prove to be our most fruitful line line of future research.

Who is the first "fairly certain" ancestor of our Eliza OLIVER line? The first OLIVER ancestor that I feel reasonable certain about is David OLIVER (and in all likelihood he connects back to earlier William OLIVERs of CO. Armagh). NOTE: This now looks to be incorrect. I believe that this David had a brother William OLIVER who is actually the ancestor of Eliza. SEE: Olivers of Farmacaffly, Ennislare & Killinure My first information was thanks to Peadar Murnane's At the Ford of the Birches {p. 263-264):

In 1766 Bryan Burns of Laragh demised to David Oliver of Ballyrea, C. Armagh, the corn mill called Lough Egish mill. Oliver was already in the linen trade in Co. Armagh. The corn mill seeminigly was changed into a beetling mill. It would appear that the concern got into debt and was 'rescued' by D McTear who in the process received a lien on the property. When David Oliver died, there was some difficulty in settling the estate. In 1815, the Court of Chancery ordered that in consideration of outstanding debts being discharged, McTear should assign the bleaching mill and green, in their actual possession, to Oliver's sons Joseph, William and Benjamin. The bleaching operation was being worked on a reduced scale; part of the mill had been changed into a flax scutching mill and another into a corn mill. It only worked 4 months of the year in total."

Initially, I had presumed that David OLIVER's wife was probably a LESLIE, but that was a misreading of the proceedings of an 1845 Court Case held at Ballybay and concerning the mills at Laragh. That being said, the news reports were helpful in identifying some of the likely descendants of  this DAVID OLIVER and his as yet unnnamed wife. Also helpful were a range of deed memorials that included likely OLIVERs and townlands. (I must stress - I am only beginning to sort them out and much error still likely lurks in the shadows of my hunches.) These leases had a fit with some of the internment records held at St. Marks, City of Armagh. They show a record of a David OLIVER of Ballyrea who was interred Feb 2, 1806. It seems to be a good fit with this DAvid OLIVER since he was definitely alive in 1803 when his daughter Martha was married but was also obviously dead before 1815 when the Court of Chancery (dealing with his convoluted will and business affairs) ordered his debts settled. There is a record of a will probate in 1807 for a David OLIVER of Ballyrea, but I have yet to see the will - if it still exists. Also of interest (as a possible wife) is a Susannah OLIVER of Ballyrea who was interred (likely at St. Patrick's Cathedral) on March 24, 1808.

At present, I am claiming this David OLIVER as our David OLIVER and from this mix of sources I am guessing that he had at least four children - although some of these assumptions about exactly who they might have been will be challenged as we work our way through his supposed children and grandchildren. It may be that I have attributed him to the wrong generation.

Children of David OLIVER: Much of the following is incorrect. I will be posting a page on the OLIVERs connected to Laragh in the near future.

• William OLIVER. There was a William, but the question is: Which of the possible William OLIVERs was he? We are still in the territory of informed hunches here - just as we were with respect to his father (let alone the silence as to who his mother might have been). Given the small population of the region at this time, as well as the even smaller numbers of people who were of their likely class and faith, the field is narrowed considerably. Lets assume that he started out in Armagh as the lease evidence seems to indicate. There was a William OLIVER born in 1727 who was baptised in Armagh Presbyterian. I am momentarily scratching him off my list for a number or reasons:
  1. It does not dovetail neatly with the presumed date of death of his father David OLIVER who would have had to have lived for 79 years after his birth - if it was 1727 (not impossible, but a bit of a stretch).
  2. A Presbyterian baptism also seems unlikely (but not impossible - there was some flex in all this). His father seems to have been Church of Ireland and since it might fit that his son would be also, then it is significant that there is a 1757 record of a William OLIVER marrying an Elizabeth STEEL in the Church of Ireland in the City of Armagh, St. Patricks. This particular William OLIVER seems more likely to be our ancestor for a number of reasons. He was from the townland of Farmacaffley in the Parish of Lisnadill (a townland that abuts Ballyrea) and an area where there are records of OLIVERs (including ours) for several generations. The first name of his wife is also a good fit with the first name given on Benjamin OLIVER's tombstone (SEE: Benjamin OLIVER ) as well as the fact that the STEEL(E) family was well established in various business enterprises in Co. Monaghan where the OLIVERs of his fathers generation also seemed to have had considerable business dealings. His sister Martha's 1803 marriage agreement describes him as William OLIVER of Laragh in the County of Monaghan Gent. This is likely where he lived in 1803, but I have yet to learn anything more. A lot of this is sheer guesswork. As my great-aunt Blin said in a 1938 letter, For the past few days I have been ... up a tree, sir, but in my case its the family one, & gosh! it has been a 'flee bedder' in its time!! A William OLIVER that could have been either him or his son was mentioned in the Griffith Valuation of 1839 (At the Ford of the Birches p. 266):

• Laragh: William OLIVER's Bleaching Mills, Flax Mill and Corn Mill. Beetling Mill: 1/Water Wheel 16 ft. diameter x 4 ft wide buckets. Flax Mill, 1/Water wheel 16 ft. diameter X5.5 ft wide buckets. Corn Mill, 1/Water wheel 16.5 ft. diameter X 5 ft. wide buckets

  The Children of William OLIVER:

  • Joseph OLIVER I am really unsure about all my various Joseph OLIVERs. The information on this one may turn out to be the set of facts that I have tucked under the Joesph OLIVER who was the son of his brother William.
  • Benjamin OLIVER (1765-1831) This is my great-great-great-grandfather - finally, some factual certainty. (Refer to his page for more details.)
1. William OLIVER Born before 1804 He died "unchurched" in 1873 at Killynure .
   
2. Thomas OLIVER Born before 1813. Never married and died in 1867. He farmed with his brother William.
3. Elizabeth OLIVER My great-great grandmother & mother of Sir Thomas JACKSON
4. James OLIVER Born after 1815 & died before 1825.
5. Mary Jane OLIVER Born 1821, died October 3, 1875. Never married.
6. Andrew Bradford OLIVER Born after 1821& died after 1874. He married Anne HANNA. (NOTE: There are photos of the children on the page for Andrew Bradford OLIVER) Their children include:
   Margaret: OLIVER
   Born May 16, 1866 d. April 14, 1881 NOTE: her death date is a bit of conjecture based on the proving of a will by Thompson BROWN, here goes: OLIVER, Margaret late of Augharafin, Co. Armagh, Spinster d 14 April 1881.Will proved by Thompson Brown of Killinure, sole executor. Effects £364.5s.8d.
   Benjamin OLIVER
   Bradford OLIVER I have no dates, but according to Bassettts Directory in 1888, there was a Bradford OLIVER living at Ballyscandle, Co. Armagh (This would be in the Parish of Eglish).
• William OLIVER I have no birth dates for him and also have some confusion over the name of his wife. The headstone of his brother Benjamin includes mention of "sister-in-law Jane, wife of William". Bear in mind this memorial stone was likely erected by his niece (Elizabeth OLIVER) more than 50 years after the death of her father and I believe that it may have the name "Jane" in error. There is an LDS record of a baptism for a son (William OLIVER, July 27, 1828) of William OLIVER & Elizabeth BALLANTYNE of Killynure [SOURCE: Batch C700811 - worth looking at for the other BALLANTYNE names]. The date of this birth makes sense in terms of a range of other events. I have no other leads for Elizabeth BALLANTYNE other than an LDS IGI: Born about 1805 at Bellaghy, Eglish, Armagh, Ireland. His debts landed him temporarily in jail; and he probably died at Laragh aabout 1844. Their children include:
1. Joseph OLIVER - a possibility. According to the court case over the mills at Laragh in 1845, there was a Joseph OLIVER, son of William OLIVER who was thrown in jail in February. He was involved in illegal acts against David LESLIE, in an incident related to his father's insolvency. At the time he had the title "Esq." - which if I understand the class ranking of the day was one notch beneath "Gent" and was described as living at Laragh. He apparently married before his father's death This next lead may not fit - we still need more detective work - but it is an interesting line to follow. There is an LDS record of a Joseph OLIVER and a Mary from Eglish Parish [SOURCE: Batch C700811 - same batch as for his father William OLIVER]. In the 1845 Court Case at Ballybay concerning ownership of the mills at Laragh, a James FEALY of Beagh is mentioned as Joseph's father-in-law (Charles and Michael FEALY were also called up concerning the case), hence we might want to keep eyes open for a Mary FEALY. Also of interest in running this to ground is that a Patrick FEALY was resident in the townland of Fairtah in the parish of Aghnamullen in the Griffiths records (and Aughnamullen figures in this puzzle of OLIVERs and who fits where). If this link is correct, then their children - all christened in Eglish Parish - would have included:

   1.      Margaret 1803
   2.      Elizabeth 1809
   3.      Anne 1811
   4.      Wm. 1815
   5.      Jane 1818
   6.      Mary 1823
   7.      Joseph 1826

2. William OLIVER July 27, 1828. There are a number of interesting conjectures about this particular William OLIVER. All or none may be true. He would have been too young to have been the one who sired two children out of wedlock in 1841 and 1844 with Mary Anne Mullen, unless, he sired the first at age 13.

• Beneath the photo: Yours truly, William [Oliver] On the back of this photo is written (in different handwriting than on the front of the photo): Height: 5 feet 5 inches Weight - 8 stone 13 lbs Dark complexion Age 18 years and 3 months Left his country for his country's good A.C. NICHOLS Photographist 62 Deleware St., Leavenworth, Kansas MY NOTE: He may be this son of William OLIVER. More work needs to be done here before I can be certain of which family he belongs to.

• Female OLIVER
• Anne OLIVER Added Feb 2, 2007: Born about 1770-1780 (probably). Married Samuel ELGEE of Dundalk in 1801. At the time of her marriage, she was from Ballyrea, her brother William was a farmer at Laragh and her brothers Benjamin & Joseph were both of Ballyrea, Co. Armagh. The Index to County Louth Inscriptions has records of a burial of Ann ELGEE of Dundalk referenced in two journals that would be worth checking. Journal of the Association for the Preservation of Memorials of the Dead in 1916 and a typscript.
• Frances OLIVER Given that the headstone for her brother Benjamin OLIVER (1765-1831) included her name as "Frances OLIVER", there is a good chance that she was the Frances OLIVER from Enagh who died a spinster and had a will proved January 14, 1837. There were no assets, so it is unlikely the will was held up. Given this, I would suspect that she died in 1836.
• Elizabeth OLIVER The headstone of her brother Benjamin OLIVER (1765-1831) refers to an Elizabeth VANCE, so I would assume that she married a certain Mr. VANCE or was a spinster daughter of a VANCE. That's all that I know. NOTE: There was an Eliza OLIVER, the daughter of an Andrew OLIVER of Tattykeel, Co. Tyrone who married a VANCE in 1700. This is too early on to be her, but there may be a connection. She also had a brother William born in 1670 in either Eglish, Co. Armagh or Tattykeel, Co. Tyrone (part of the Henry (William ) OLIVER: 1807-1888 Ancestry and Descendants by Henry Oliver REA. .
• Benjamin OLIVER (son of David). I have no clues on this Benjamin OLIVER, but I think that it would be worthwhile to explore the Benjamin OLIVER of Lislooney, Co. Armagh (leases in the early 1800s) or the document for a Benjamin OLIVER of Ballynahonbeg, Co. Armagh (although with a probate date of 1770, this one - if he is linked - is more likely to be in the previous generation). Amy LLOYD's history on this point is confusing: Benjamin lived at Ballanahode, Rookford. She seems to indicate that this Benjamin is a brother of Elizabeth OLIVER (daughter of the Benjamin OLIVER of Killinure) - but he has to be from a previous generation - possibly even two removed. Added Feb 2, 2007: There was a George OLIVER who was married in 1845 at Clontibret, Clones, Co. Monaghan . His father was Benjamin OLIVER, a weaver. This might connect. Another connection, this one quite likely to connect in some way, is a record at St. Marks (probably a Cathedral record) of parents Benjamin OLIVER and Mary COURTNEY having their daughter Mary Anne baptized in 1805.
• Martha OLIVER (daughter of David) .Here we are on little firmer ground since we have the marriage settlement for Martha OLIVER with Nathaniel LESLIE of Drumacanner [this is probably Drumacanver, Parish of Derrynoose, Barony of Armagh - a townland south west of Brootally], Co Armagh and she is described as Martha OLIVER, spinster the daughter of David OLIVER of Ballyrea in Co Armagh. Joseph OLIVER & Benjamin OLIVER are also named - although whether they were the ones who were her brothers or were uncles or anything else, is not clear. His father was William LESLIE and as part of the marriage bond he granted to Benjamin & Joseph OLIVER part of the Townland Drumconner (?) formerly in the possession of William LESLIE deceased and then in the possession of the said Nathaniel situate lying and being in the Manor of Toaghy and Barony of Armagh. ... Witness Samuel LESLIE brother to the said Nathaniel LESLIE and William OLIVER of Laragh in the County of Monaghan Gent. And this Memorial is witnessed by the said William OLIVER & Thomas APPLEBY of the City of Armagh Scrivener. Joseph OLIVER [SEAL] September 19, 1803.
  • David LESLIE I presume he fits here based on the news coverage concerning the Laragh court cases, and that he had a son who was full grown by 1845. NOTE: It might be worth a look at PRONI D/3406/D The LESLIE of Ballybay Papers. The 1876 Landowners list shows both a John Leslie and a Nathaniel Leslie at Kilreavy, Keady, owning 3 acres and 1 acre respectively.
    • John Leslie b. abt 1831 was mentioned in the court records of 1845 concerning Laragh.
      

·        Joseph OLIVER (son of David) 1764-1837 There is a marriage agreement in 1804 between Joseph OLIVER and Jane HAMILTON. SOURCE: DEED: 567-358-381199 It places Joseph OLIVER as a resident of Ballyrea, Co. Armagh and his wife Jane as a resident of Tullymore. h This seems to be a good fit. From his will, it seems that he also had a second wife, Catherine - although this is not certain (she may have been known under both names). The Belfast Newsletter gave his age as 73, from which his birth date was imputed. It would also be worth checking the record in the Belfast newsletter for the death of Jane OLIVER d.1826 of Tullymore. SEE Also: Tullymore OLIVERs Just to muddy the waters further - there was also mention of a Derryhaw in the HAMILTON-OLIVER marriage agreement which is interesting since in 1850 a Joseph OLIVER owned a mill there. Naturally, this is beyond confusing if this is the same Joseph OLIVER of the will since he would have already been dead. I suspect that I have missed something here.Josephs son:

• John Elliot OLIVER 1831- abt June 26, 1850 [SOURCE: St. Marks records as well as the mention in the aforementioned will]