The OLIVER family crest: Amy
LLOYD - 1874-1962 - a daughter of Sir
Thomas JACKSON and grand-daughter
of Eliza
OLIVER -says that the Oliver crest that relates to our family included the symbol of three fish, one below the other. This is an echo of the KANE family crest, so there may be a connection to the KANE family. I did find a plaque with the three fish sculpted on the right hand side of the entrance to the Church of Ireland cathedral at Trim. The fact of it had first been mentioned to me by Thomas Andrew Jackson (1830-2007). As a child, attending a funeral, he had overheard one of a couple of exceedingly well-dressed, elderly women saying: Our family have been here. These women were not local, nor were they known to Thomas Andrew Jackson. They were of a higher social class than his farming family. The Trim Cathedral was the church of his parents, and he was a grandson of Eliza Jackson née OLIVER.
INSERT
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The family crest of the Olivers of Limerick has only one fish, not three and is identical to the Oliver family crest in the Northern Transept of the Church of Ireland Cathedral window in the City of Armagh. This was the crest of Rev Silver OLIVER (1778-1844), rector of Loughgall, Co. Armagh. He was a benefactor during the 1834 restoration of the Cathedral, and was buried at Derrynoose, Co. Armagh. There are some confusions about his connection to the rest of our Oliver family in our family's oral history. I am still working on clarifying all this. I have included a large version of the image so you can see the particulars of the crest of Silver Oliver in the lower right hand corner of the window.
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The
Location of our OLIVERS: Blin
BROWN , my great-aunt, left us notes that
say: The
Olivers came from France originally & settled around Armagh.
At one time, they owned lots of landed property, Killylea & Lisnadill
districts. They had Dublin connections too. These
land connections can be traced and verified through the various DEEDS that
I have posted and I am continuing to work on the full story of their landholdings. There are still more deeds that I need to view
and digest. Blin BROWN also mentioned that the Dublin branch of our
family had the cathedral in their crest. I have few ideas who the
Dublin OLIVERs were (just a few marriage and birth records) and how
they may eventually fit in. Perhaps they were the well dressed ladies who turned up at the funeral in Trim.
Silver OLIVER - the mystery
of how he connects: Other
notes of Blin's from Gilford Castle claim that: Silver
Oliver was Dean of Armagh & his son, Silver Oliver married
Maria Oliver. Unfortunately, I can find no record of Rev. Silver OLIVER and his wife Alicia MADDEN having any children. Yet. If they did, there was a Silver OLIVER (1778-1844) who may be the one that Blin
may have been referring to. He was a Doctor at Loughgall, Co. Armagh.
A person so named entered military service, serving
mainly in India and Canada.
SOURCE: From http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/2240.html ] He
was described as an English military surgeon, born at Kilfanane, Co. Limerick in 1836 who ended
his career as Surgeon General. He was also the author of: Physical
diagnosis of thoracic aneurysm. [SOURCE: Letter.
Lancet, London, 1878, II: 406.] He died 1908, at Farnborough. NOTE:
I am unsure if this is the same person that Blin identified.
Then there is also a William
Silver OLIVER who is recognized in a Canadian patent: SEE: Patent
45782 . In 1870 he served as a
regimental surgeon with the 1st Battalion, 60th Rifles, in the
Red River campaign; there he had seen first-hand the combat requirements
of soldiers. His goal was to furnish each man with enough ammunition,
clothing and rations to make him independent of his base for a
24-hour period. Given the timelines, I suspect that if this
OLIVER was related to the previous William Silver OLIVER, then
he was likely to have been a son. This one married in Toronto:
16 April, 1872, William Silver OLIVER, Staff Surgeon to H.
M. Forces, bachelor, and Elizabeth Alice GALT, spinster, Toronto. [SOURCE: St.
James Church, Toronto, Canada ] Interesting in this connection
is that there was also a John OLIVER b.1834 who was a Colonel
of the Canadian Royal Artillery and also a professor who married
a local woman in Kingston, Ontario. I believe he was also a surgeon.
SEE: Report
102 . NOTE: I have nothing more on any of these OLIVERs at this
time.
DOBBIN-OLIVER
connections:
According to Blin, the OLIVER families are also connected to the DOBBIN family of Armagh. I have been able to nail some of this down. Mary OLIVER (b bef 1691) married a James DOBBIN (1684-1722). She was a daughter of William OLIVER (abt 1670-1726) of Sherranmcaghully, Parish Of Eglish, Co. Armagh or Tattykeel, Parish Of Kildress. His wife was possibly called Elinore (d 1753, Mullinture).
From two email correspondents, Michael DOBBIN and Lori CHECHI, I learned more details about the Mary OLIVER who married a James DOBBIN (1684-1722) of Tirnascobe and Rathdrumgran on Dec 6, 1711. They had a son who died in infancy, three daughters and two other sons, William (Baptised Sept 12, 1714) and Rev. James, 1st Presbyterian Minister at Newtownards, Co. Down (Bapt. Feb 26, 1714). [SOURCE: email Feb 8, 2006]. Also, they lived in Tirniscobe, on the Charlemount Estate in Armagh. [SOURCE email: Jan 25, 2005] Mary OLIVER had a brother, William OLIVER, who may also have been from Tirnascobe, Co. Armagh.
NOTE to self - follow up on Charlemount records.
Michael DOBBIN has reason
to believe he was somehow a prominent member of society....possibly
an author.
[SOURCE email: Jan 24, 2005.] This may be a fit with the William
OLIVER who wrote a dissertation in 1764 which is in the special
collection at the Armagh Public Library. I
need to check that out. Descendants of this DOBBIN
line currently live in Australia. These OLIVERs may also be a fit
with the William and Mary OLIVER who were mentioned in Thomas
Ashe's memoir as tenants
at Mullintur in 1703. Also note:
LAND
RECORDS OF CHARLEMOUNT ESTATE
Oliver
Dobbin, 1 Nov 1789, 3 lives
Leonard Dobbin, 1 Nov 1750, 3 lives |
One other source to
tuck in the back of our heads are the Parish records of St. Marks,
and St. Patrick's Cathedral in the City of Armagh. In these records,
there are three townlands of interest in connection with the DOBBIN
name. There are two DOBBIN births (1785 & 1844) with parents
resident at Ballinahone (a
townland where we have records indicating the presence of OLIVERs
from 1770-1849) and in 1820 a William & Eliza DOBBIN had a daughter,
Mary Jane born at Ternascobe.
In the burials, there are ten DOBBINs whose residences were in townlands
close to Killynure,
including two who were actually given as resident at Killynure (a
child Leonard DOBBIN, died at Killynure in1756 and a child Margaret
died at age 6 in 1757). Since Killynure was leased by OLIVERs
from at least 1806 onwards (and owned until 1954), this proximity
might have also encouraged more intermarriages that we have yet to
learn about.
Here is where the DOBBIN-OLIVER connection fits:
1 Robert DOBBIN b: Abt 1660 d: 1735
+ Isabella STEWART
2 John DOBBIN d: Bef 1775
2 Robert DOBBIN d: 20 Mar 1753
2 Henry DOBBIN
+ Jane DOBBIN
3 Robert DOBBIN b: 22 Jan 1710 d: 24 Mar 1773
2 Archibald DOBBIN d: 1741
+ Elizabeth MOORE
3 Jane DOBBIN b: Jun 1718
3 Robert DOBBIN b: Sep 1720
3 Mary DOBBIN b: Oct 1722
3 George DOBBIN b: May 1725
2 James DOBBIN b: 1684 d: 1722
+ Mary OLIVER b: Bef 1691
3 Elizabeth DOBBIN b: 1712
3 William DOBBIN b: Abt 1714
4 Oliver DOBBIN b: 1740
+ Elizabeth KING b: 1757
5 William DOBBIN b: 1788 d: 25 May 1852
+ Anne MARTIN b: Abt 1800 d: 4 Jul 1886
5 Esther DOBBIN b: Abt 1793
5 Emelia DOBBIN b: Abt 1797
5 Mary DOBBIN b: Abt 1799
4 James DOBBIN b: 1744 d: 1830
+ Agnes PILLOW b: 1769
5 Robert DOBBIN b: 1797
5 James DOBBIN b: 1799
5 Samuel DOBBIN b: 1805
+ Martha SINGLETON
4 John DOBBIN b: 1746 d: 1821
+ Jane BELL b: Abt 1767 d: 3 Jun 1859
5 Adam DOBBIN
5 John DOBBIN b: Abt 1800 d: 25 Dec 1876
3 James DOBBIN b: 16 Feb 1714 d: 16 Jun 1782
4 Frances Mary DOBBIN
+ Unnamed LANSDOWN
4 John DOBBIN
4 James DOBBIN
4 Richard DOBBIN b: 1780 d: 21 Nov 1864
3 Oliver DOBBIN b: May 1818
2 Leonard DOBBIN b: 1699 d: 16 Apr 1770
+ Mary OATES b: Apr 1720
3 John DOBBIN d: 1820
3 Thomas DOBBIN b: 1754 d: 21 Nov 1807
+ Rhoda BROWN
4 Mary DOBBIN
+ William Hamilton MAXWELL b: 30 Jun 1792 d: 29 Dec 1850
5 Thomas Dobbin MAXWELL
+ Sarah MATHEW
4 Leonard DOBBIN b: 29 Apr 1789 d: 5 May 1881
+ Mary MILLER
5 Leonard DOBBIN b: 8 Mar 1825 d: 8 Nov 1848
5 Rhoda Mary DOBBIN b: 1827
5 Robert Alexander DOBBIN b: 17 Mar 1835 d: 5 Sep 1875
+ Louisa WALKER b: Abt 1834 d: 2 Nov 1902
6 Leonard William Robert DOBBIN b: 26 Sep 1864 d: 24 Feb 1943
+ Anne GOBBETT
5 William DOBBIN b: 24 May 1837 d: 27 Jul 1875
5 Alexander John DOBBIN b: 23 Jun 1840 d: 7 Jul 1880
5 Henry Brooke DOBBIN b: 21 Mar 1842 d: 22 Jul 1873
5 Charles Edward DOBBIN b: 11 Apr 1846 d: 14 Jun 1879
4 Alexander John DOBBIN b: 29 Mar 1797
4 Anne DOBBIN b: 27 Nov 1798 d: 22 Sep 1863
+ Henry Leslie PRENTICE b: 1794 d: 13 Oct 1869
5 Anne PRENTICE
5 Rhoda PRENTICE b: 1829
+ Leonard D. BROOKE
6 Rhoda BROOKE
+ Thomas Graham BALFOUR b: 2 Feb 1858 d: 26 Oct 1929
5 Lucinda Brooke PRENTICE b: Abt 1832
5 Mary PRENTICE b: Abt 1835
5 Henry Elliot PRENTICE b: Abt 1837
5 Catherine York PRENTICE b: 16 Sep 1839
+ Unnamed BROWNELL
5 Dupre Alexander PRENTICE b: 5 Nov 1841 d: 8 Oct 1856
4 John DOBBIN b: 1 Mar 1800
3 Leonard DOBBIN b: 1762 d: 1844
Who is the
first "fairly certain" ancestor of our Eliza OLIVER line? Her great-grandparents were William OLIVER (bef 1700) and Elizabeth HARDY (bef 1700). Also see: Olivers
of Farmacaffly, Ennislare & Killinure My
first information about the family involvement in the linen industry was thanks to Peadar
Murnane's At
the Ford of the Birches {p.
263-264):
In
1766 Bryan Burns of Laragh demised to David Oliver of
Ballyrea, C. Armagh, the corn mill called Lough Egish mill.
Oliver was already in the linen trade in Co. Armagh. The corn
mill seeminigly was changed into a beetling mill. It would
appear that the concern got into debt and was 'rescued' by
D McTear who in the process received a lien on the property.
When David Oliver died, there was some difficulty in settling
the estate. In 1815, the Court of Chancery ordered that in
consideration of outstanding debts being discharged, McTear
should assign the bleaching mill and green, in their actual
possession, to Oliver's sons Joseph,
William and Benjamin. The bleaching
operation was being worked on a reduced scale; part of the mill
had been changed into a flax scutching mill and another into a
corn mill. It only worked 4 months of the year in total."
Initially,
I had presumed that
David OLIVER's wife was probably a LESLIE, but that was a misreading
of the proceedings
of an 1845 Court Case held at Ballybay and concerning the mills
at Laragh. That being said, the news reports were helpful in
identifying some of the likely descendants of this DAVID
OLIVER and his wife Susannah WALKER. Also helpful were a range
of deed memorials that included likely OLIVERs and townlands. These leases fit with some of the internment
records held at St. Marks, City of Armagh. They show a record
of a David OLIVER of Ballyrea who was interred Feb 2, 1806. It
seems to be a good fit with this David OLIVER since he was definitely
alive in 1803 when his daughter Martha was married (that was where the LESLIE came in) but was also
obviously dead before 1815 when the Court of Chancery (dealing
with his convoluted will and business affairs) ordered his debts
settled. There is a record of a will probate in 1807 for a David
OLIVER of Ballyrea, but I have yet to see the will - if it still
exists. David OLIVER's wife was a Susannah OLIVER
of Ballyrea who was interred (likely at St. Patrick's Cathedral)
on March 24, 1808.
Benjamin
OLIVER (1765-1831) This is my great-great-great-grandfather
- finally, some factual certainty. (Refer to his page
for more details.)
- William OLIVER Born before 1804 He died "unchurched" in
1873 at Killynure .
- Thomas OLIVER Born before 1813. Never married and died
in 1867. He farmed with his brother William.
- Elizabeth
OLIVER My great-great grandmother & mother of Sir
Thomas JACKSON
- James OLIVER Born after 1815 & died
before 1825.
- Mary
Jane OLIVER Born 1821, died October 3, 1875. Never married.
- Andrew
Bradford OLIVER Born after
1821& died after 1874. He married firstly Mary Jane HAYES, and 2ndly Anne HANNA.
(NOTE: There are photos of the children on the page for
Andrew Bradford OLIVER)
-
William OLIVER July 27, 1828. There
are a number of interesting conjectures about this particular
William OLIVER. This photo is in a photo album on the same page as other children of Andrew Bradford OLIVER, so my assumption is that William is one of his children. I cannot be sure whether William's mother was the 1st wife of Andrew Bradford OLIVER, or the 2nd.
Update:
Recent sleuthing by Carolyn Hendry makes it more likely that William was a child of Andrew Bradford Oliver's 2nd marriage, and that William had a middle initial "H", which may have stood for Hanna. He is recorded on the family gravemarker in Lislea, but based on the fact of an identical death date for a William Oliver, was buried at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. He served as William H. Oliver, Private, Company A, 1st Regiment, Kansas Infantry, Union. His death in April 18. 1867, would have been two years after the end of the Civil War. His rank as private would have been before 1865. |
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Beneath the
photo:
Yours truly, William [Oliver]
On the back of this photo is written (in different
handwriting than on the front of the photo):
Height: 5 feet 5 inches
Weight - 8 stone 13 lbs
Dark complexion
Age 18 years and 3 months
Left his country for his
country's good
A.C. NICHOLS
Photographist
62 Deleware St.,
Leavenworth, Kansas |
